Well, its interesting how things turn out. Your scepticism was well grounded and both of you were giving me a message i needed to hear. I was in error in my interpretation and actually it is quite a large one.

I contacted Stan Tenen becuase I thought he would be much better at sharing his work. I sent our 3 posts to him and this was his response which he gave permission to share with this group.

>A while back I came across this site: <www.meru.org/>www.meru.org/
>
>On it Stan Tenen has found that by shing light through a tetrahedron that
>has a phi ratio spiral in it, you can create a shadow of every english and
>hebrew letter.

This is not correct. What you're describing is what the US Federal
District Court found to be the willful and malicious descriptions of my
work produced by a plagiarist.

First of all, I didn't find this. I designed it.

Any wire coat hanger, bent to include two loops in 3-D, can make shadows
that look like letters of just about any alphabet. What I designed was a
_meaningful_ way to produce the letters of _particular_ Hebrew, Greek, and
Arabic alphabets that fit the descriptions (but no pictures, of course) of
the Hebrew, Christian, and Moslem traditions.

The golden spiral, or phi spiral, as it's called, has nothing to do with
this, and in fact, this claim is the primary abuse that was produced by the
malicious plagiarist.

Mr. Winter actually told me (and others), and it's in the sworn court
record, that "My [Mr. Winter's] audiences are too stupid to know that I'm
making up my claims about the golden spiral." So, this was deliberate
fraud and abuse from day 1. Mr. Winter and his attorney also confessed to
this in their sworn statement, and the court's and our experts also
confirmed that there never was a golden or phi spiral in our design, and
also that there never was, and still isn't, any golden or phi spiral in Mr.
Winter's plagiary. (The experts found that Mr. Winter manually moved the
data points from a real spiral until they matched my unique design. There
is no math involved. What Mr. Winter did is pure "fudge".)

There were no golden spirals in the ancient world, because algebra wasn't
invented until Descartes. Thus, to claim a connection between the golden
spiral and any alphabet would be completely anachronistic.

Also, there isn't any one phi or golden spiral. There are an infinite
number of golden spirals, and there are an infinite number of phi-based
golden pseudo-spirals. The con artists like Mr. Winter would have us
believe that the so-called phi or golden spiral is unique. It's not. It
wasn't even known in the ancient world.

And all spirals are defined only in two dimensions. There is no
mathematical 3-dimensional form of the golden or phi spirals. This is
another fraud. Most people think it's okay to pull a spiral into 3-D and
that that's still math -- but it isn't. Mr. Winter and his attorney
admitted this, and the court confirmed it.

And even if there were a unique golden spiral, and even if it were known in
the ancient world, it still would never have been associated with the
alphabet, because these spirals only occur in the "death-trace" of living
things, and because these spirals, like all log spirals, are "narcissistic".

You can find an old paper on all of this at
www.meru.org/goldmean.html .

The spiral that I decided to start with, and that I decided how to pull
into 3-D (not math, but personal design) is based on what I call the
"embryonic spiral". It can be found in all ancient sources. It can be
found under the Eye of Horus. It can be found in Babylonian friezes and
sculpture. It can be found throughout the Greek world, especially at the
top of all Ionic columns. It can be found throughout Leonardo's notebooks
-- which contain no log or golden spirals whatsoever. It can be found
throughout Christian iconography in a form related to the shepherd's
crook. It can be found on Shang Dynasty pottery. It can be found
throughout the illustrations in the Book of Kells.

None of these has anything to do with phi, or the golden or pseudo-golden
spirals.

The spiral that I pull into 3-D was known throughout the ancient world,
because it is entirely asymmetrical. It starts as a straight line, and
ends as a perfect circle. This is not the narcissistic golden spiral that
always circles itself in its own self-image (like Narcissus staring at his
image in the water), but rather the most asymmetrical spiral that is
constantly changing, growing, and transitioning. (Mr. Winter is a
narcissist, according to the psychiatrists. This explains his fixation on
the golden and phi spirals. It's kind of a "Freudian slip". <sigh>)

As you may recall from my now-archival "Light in the Meeting Tent", at
www.meru.org/lightintent/lightin.html , the tetrahedron,
representing the meeting tent, is entirely symmetrical, which means that
its complement, the "light", must be entirely asymmetrical.

The phi, golden, and log spirals are the _most_ symmetric spirals. They're
always self-similar. This disqualifies them. (Mr. Winter admitted under
oath that this was the case, and thus what he was claiming was obviously
wrong, and deliberately malicious. But he tells his followers that there
is a conspiracy to "get" him, and he continues to claim that the golden
spiral is meaningful with regard to the alphabet in public. This is vastly
sick. <sigh>)

Please read up on the sworn testimony and US Federal Court Findings and
Orders. You can find almost everything at www.danwinter.com .
Please also notice that Mr. Winter is a fugitive, with a Federal arrest
warrant following him. He and his followers continue to act in
"in-your-face" defiance of at least two independent US Federal Courts.

Please help to set the record straight by accurately describing my designs,
and distinguishing them from the malicious abuses and bastardizations
produced by Mr. Winter, and repeated by his followers.

Thanks for understanding. This is really important. All living geometry
is based on integrity. It's necessary to protect the integrity of serious
ideas, else they do not contribute to life, but instead, lead down to where
it's cold, and dark, and dead. In order to fully appreciate models of
integrity, it's necessary to act with integrity, and to let others know
that this is a key to understanding these ideas and making use of them.

If I'm right, this is part of a "science of consciousness", ergo, being
accurate is important. <smile>

>So basically all of the letters of these languages are contained within
>the structure of the univere.

No. First of all, there is nothing special about the English
letters. Palmer script was created less than 200 years ago. Only the
plagiarists are making claims for English, and they get away with it
because, as I mentioned above, it is possible to make any letter shape,
from any alphabet, from a wire coat hanger bent to include a couple of
loops. When you can use anything to make anything, there's no meaning to
any of it. That's why the Court found Mr. Winter's claim that my model
makes English letters to be malicious. This exaggeration disparages the
serious ideas I'm trying to present. (That's why Mr. Winter makes this
false claim.)

The only alphabets that fit the model that I designed are _particular_
Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic alphabets. There is also a logical -- but not a
shape -- connection to the Sanskrit/Vedic alphabet system. No other
alphabets that I'm aware of fit this pattern. Exaggerated claims only
reduce plausibility, and need to be avoided.

However, in what I'm proposing, while the shape of letters, besides the
particular Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic alphabets I'm working with, is pretty
arbitrary, and has nothing to do with the structure of the universe, what
I'm proposing does, in a sense, have to do with the structure of the
universe. But that's a long discussion in itself.

>What I have been playing with is placing words on geometrical structures
>to give the meanings to the words.
>
>I was just wondering if anyone out there has been playing with such things
>and what have you discovered?
>

Please let the others reading your message also read what I wrote above,
and in this email. It's impossible for Meru Foundation to gain credibility
and support when malicious and incorrect ideas are mixed in with what we're
actually proposing. I'd guess you're not the only one who thinks there's
little difference between Mr. Winter's deliberate distortions and abuse of
my ideas and designs, and the real thing. The purpose of Mr. Winter's
plagiary has been to discredit Meru Foundation, not to teach anything at
all. Mr. Winter admitted to using anti-Semitism. He is mentally ill. Mr.
Winter has fled the US, because he knows that if he appears in Federal
Court again as ordered, he is going to have to face the testimony of
a number of psychiatrists, who are likely to confirm that he is a
narcissist, a pathological liar, and without feelings or compassion for
anyone other than himself -- i.e., a psychopath. As the court orders
confirm, Mr. Winter "gets his jollies" by hurting innocent people, and
claiming to be the victim. Please don't let him get away with this. Our
findings are serious, and have real implications that could be of great
help to real people.

>
>I received the following 2 posts:
>
> Hmm, maybe you should try it for yourself (or see it for yourself)
> before believing something so spectacular is true. If I said I could fly
> with nothing but happy thoughts would you believe me without first seeing
> with your own eyes? (barring any metaphorical stretching of what "flying"
> means) This is no different, his claim is pretty outrageous, but
> fortunately doens't see to hard to test for yourself. As the saying goes:
> "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
>
>

Please send this person this message. Thanks.

>anyone can figure out any arbitrary method for imbuing some meaning other
>than the socially accepted "agreement" meaning to words, but why on earth
>bother? "meaning" or function resides in the brain of the languaging
>individual and more or less corresponds to the "meaning" or function in
>other individuals using nearly the same set of arbitrary sounds and
>symbols. Beyond the sonic properties of the sounds and the morphology and
>orthology of the letters, the arbitrary sounds represented with arbitrary
>symbols, have no essential ontology subject to mathematical or geometric
>description, the great efforts of kabalists, numerologists, and others
>notwithstanding ... its a dead end for maping the "objective" world, but
>still manages to create a marvellously rich and apparently infinite world
>of abstraction which attracts many ... enjoy the Der Glasspearlenspeil, by
>all means, just don't fall for the illusion it offers
>

This is an appropriate response, from an intelligent and skeptical
person. If this person knew what I was actually proposing, their response
might be more positive. But as it is, it's a good example of how my ideas,
when distorted, lose their credibility and lead to the sort of response
above.

Please send this person this message also.

And BTW, if anyone reading this would like more info on what I'm actually
proposing, and what the Meru designs of "living geometry" are really about,
please feel free to email me directly, and I will respond.

It's really good when the wrong-headed ideas that Mr. Winter has spread are
rejected. But they should be rejected as Mr. Winter's foolishness, and
deliberate attempts at discrediting my ideas, and not as representative of
my ideas. What I'm proposing is defendable, sensible, and plausible. When
you accept what Mr. Winter has imposed on my work, then he gets his jollies
for having succeeded in damaging the credibility of my work. I hope you
can see how destructive this is.