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Kindof a tribe icebreaker here...
I am a psych major/spanish minor in the 3rd year of my undergrad. i am contemplating a minor in linguistics - wondering if I have enough time to fit it all in.
My first loves are for psycholinguistics and bilingual cognition, but I also am raelly itnerested in spanish dialects and my taste for historical linguistics and phonetics is growing.
So far I am planning to go on to speech pathology.
I am a psych major/spanish minor in the 3rd year of my undergrad. i am contemplating a minor in linguistics - wondering if I have enough time to fit it all in.
My first loves are for psycholinguistics and bilingual cognition, but I also am raelly itnerested in spanish dialects and my taste for historical linguistics and phonetics is growing.
So far I am planning to go on to speech pathology.
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Re: What are your interests?
Fri, February 6, 2004 - 10:25 AMMy main liguistic interest is in linguistic anthropology.
My academic study and carreer are in politiclal communications, so it comes up a lot. In a grand sense, all politics boils down to the conflict over meaning. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Fri, February 20, 2004 - 9:27 PMA bit late to the topic, but…
My interest in linguistics is primarily abstract and interdisciplinary. That is, I am interested in abstract automata, generative grammars, syntax, semantics, neurolinguistics, computational linguistics and speech recognition.
Truthfully, I am little more than a linguistic dilettante, but I am eager to learn more.
Regards
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Re: What are your interests?
Fri, February 27, 2004 - 2:05 PMi am also interested in linguistic anthropology. i am interested in addressing phonetics, syntax, and pragmatics from this perspective. i am currently pursuing a double major of history and linguistics.
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 11:18 AMBrit - "My academic study and carreer are in politiclal communications, so it comes up a lot. In a grand sense, all politics boils down to the conflict over meaning."
Nicely said :-)
My academic background is in visual art (with the emphasis on studio, meaning actually making art not writing about it). I'm a professional writer (art, music and cultural theory) and have worked in communications (shaping messages and public perceptions). I also do French to English translations and live in a bilingual (well, multilingual really) city. So, it's really a huge collision of things that make linguistics interesting to me and that prompted me to join this tribe. Though I read more than I post...so far anyway :-)
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Unsu...
Re: What are your interests?
Wed, March 3, 2004 - 7:42 PMMy interests are symbolic, sonic, cultural, and historical.
I love alphabets (Tolkien, Arabic, Hebrew, Greek, and my own).
I love breaking down words into their smallest particles (that sound the same backwards as forwards, when played so on a recording device) - Music, Audio Engineering, and Speech all blend together there.
Language tells the history of the people that speak it. It records beliefs, fears, and interactions with other cultures.
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 4, 2004 - 1:20 AMI've always been fascinated by other languages and love to hear them spoken and see them written. Besides English, I've studied small amounts of Italian, Arabic, Thai, Russian, Spanish, and anything else I may have come across in passing. My main interest with linguistics lies within the dynamics of its complexity as a signal of thought transmission. This extends to the notion of animal linguistics as well, as it pertains to vocalizations of any form and even their combination with physical manifestations such as body language. My thoughts are such that language is somewhat like the path of a stream as it snakes its way across the surface of the earth. Its path changes as the thought forms which flow through it ebb and flow as a reflection of the collective psychology and greater cognitive awareness. But since the brain as a body management mechanism has an inbuilt ability to acquire and utilized linguistic communication, our present manifestation of language is an extra level of surface complexity beyond the essential requirement of our super organism, our social order. This is just off the top of my head. And there is much, much more. I am a complete layman on the subject and have had no formal education in this area, so I hope you find my perspective at least refreshing. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, March 24, 2004 - 12:45 PMI'm intrigued with the sociology & politics of language (& language planning & policy). Love Noam Chomsky for his deconstructions of American governmental obfuscation on war - and hate him for transformational grammar. I have a fairly utopian view of natural languages, and get a giggle out of the whole Esperantist movement (especially out of there being dialects of Esperanto). It bugs me no end that most of the public policy on multilingualism is determined by monolingual folks - which seems as logical as ESL teachers who only speak English.
I have a pretty good ear for accents & foreign languages,* and only wish I had more time to study further. I was raised bilingually - Spanish then English - and have studied German fairly earnestly. [I speak enough to get into trouble, though probably not enough to get back out of it....] Besides all the different languages that came up in my undergrad days - mostly in phonetics & phonology - I have been a highly-suggestable sucker for teach-yourself language/phrase books. I tried learning Icelandic in junior high, after finishing off a German phrasebook & hearing about Icelandic naming conventions somewhere. I think I have since tried my hand/ear at: Italian, Japanese, Latin, French, Yiddish, Russian, Mandarin, Haitian Creole, Farsi, Brazilian Portuguese, Modern Hebrew, Cantonese, Polish, Hungarian, Swahili, Tagalog, Korean & Thai - ever the wishful thinker. And there were even a couple of times when I actually DID travel somewhere after studying a little of the local language beforehand.
Polyglottaly yours,
Richard
*one of the skills that had me early in my linguistics studies describing my program as a great "cocktail major" - and proceding to pronounce whole charts of nasal vowels, or do absurdist takes on Aussie blokes teaching French, to the great joy of my drunken classmates -
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 25, 2004 - 12:53 PMI like weirding people out by pronouncing the series of ejective and nonejective consonants in Tlingit. Watching people with poor phonetic imitative skill is a hoot when they contort their face trying to pronounce an ejective pharyngeal stop and choke on their tongue.
Also entertaining and disturbing for ordinary people is when you read off a vowel chart and try to get people to distinguish the differences between them. Or even more fun, do Cantonese tones.
BTW, anyone know whether we can use full unicode on tribe? Or should we use SAMPA for phonetic characters?
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 25, 2004 - 12:45 PMI'm into syntax and semantics. Mostly from a head-driven phrase structure grammar (HPSG) perspective, but I'm a fan of Ray Jackendoff's work as well. I'm going into computational linguistics, probably in machine translation.
I also have a side interest in writing systems, particularly in typography for various languages. But that's more art than science.
I dislike much of Chomsky's present work in syntax because he has willfully neglected the very real question of computability. His current syntactic apparatus, particularly the generic Move-alpha rule, is essentially uncomputable. I don't see how he can maintain the argument that his theory is representative of actual mental processes when it's not even mathematically computable, let alone problems of neurobiology. And his insistence that semantics is either uninteresting or subsumed by syntax seems ridiculous to me. But I'm way off topic. Pardon the rant. -
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Unsu...
Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 25, 2004 - 12:57 PMi don't think move-alpha is current in chomsky's work. as part of the minimalist program, movement is now supposed to be driven by feature-checking. or am i missing the point, and move-alpha is still part of the feature-checking system?
does chomsky actually insist that semantics is uninteresting or subsumed by syntax? if so, what does he mean? -
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 25, 2004 - 1:38 PMI'm pretty sure that Move-alpha is still there, although I could be wrong. But to move things around through transformation you need some sort of movement, and that's what it's for. Maybe it's just assumed now and doesn't have a name.
I still dislike the idea of transformations and the whole deep versus surface structure thing (no matter what he wants to call it nowadays). I don't think people could possibly do all that complex computation in their heads, particularly when constructing sentences in a very serial fashion. I certainly don't think that way, I think. (Don't get lost in the loop!)
Jackendoff summarizes Chomsky's opinions about semantics very well. Chomsky calls everything that is a combinatorially organized system in the mind 'syntax', due to the logical positivism of Charles Morris. Referential dependency, the relation of a pronoun to its antecedent, is thus 'syntactic' in this sense because it's part of some combinatorial system in the head. But this is not what most linguists take to be 'syntax', which is usually seen as the rules by which words and morphemes are arranged into grammatical sentences. The real question most linguists are asking is whether referential dependency is 'semantic' in the sense of being a process of meaning, or 'syntactic' in the sense of being a process of grammar. In essence, Chomsky is taking a position that allows him to waffle as much as he wants by simply using a different sense of the term without defining which sense he means. It's a rhetorical maneuver, but he's used it to discredit the study of semantics because he is skeptical of intentionalist theories of meaning, that is that mental representations (semantics) are symbols which have 'meaning'.
Jackendoff makes a very clever argument by carefully separating several different problems here. What he does is makes the vital point that semantics isn't 'about meaning' per se, but 'is meaning'. That is, semantic symbols do not have intention, they are not 'about something', they are in fact that 'something' themselves. This frees him from having to argue about problems of interface between semantics and the real world. Semantic symbols are not 'about' the real world, they 'are' the real world because we don't live in the real world but instead live in our perceptions of it. Neat trick, that. You should read his book, "The Foundations of Language". It's really worth it and opened my eyes to a lot of problems in linguistics that simply boil down to poor theoretical and philosophical foundations, and confounding terminology with poor definitions.
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, March 25, 2004 - 11:06 PM>BTW, anyone know whether we can use full unicode on tribe? Or should we use SAMPA for phonetic characters?
Unicode chars that are not in ISO 8859-1 work; IE uploads them as Numeric Character References, they stay as such in Tribe, and IE reinterprets them as the correct character when seeing a Tribe page.
ISO 8859-1 chars that are not in ASCII have the weird problem of a space appearing before the character. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Mon, April 5, 2004 - 2:12 PMsome of my interests here: neologisms & invented languages, General Semantics, different cultural writing systems, etc.!
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, April 21, 2004 - 10:16 AMSyntax and semantics are of great interest to me, but morphology, oddly, was the subject that first really caught me... puzzling out patterns in concatenative suffixes and such, fun! I minored in linguistics, and am glad I did so, although I didn't put in the time to learn much about phonology/phonetics. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, April 22, 2004 - 2:55 AMI was pleasantly surprised to find a popular book by a conservative (John McWhorter) actually had intelligent discussion of examples such as the development of irregular verbs. He also has a lot to say about changes in English writing and speaking style, which I guess would be sociolinguistics.
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Re: What are your interests?
Mon, April 26, 2004 - 3:18 PMi love linguistic anthropology as a whole, but am torn between the historical aspect and the present day applications. i'm sure one day i will find the perfect job that combines the two.
otherwise, i am a delayed undergraduate anthro major/ psych minor as a multi-year senior. -
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Unsu...
Re: What are your interests?
Mon, April 26, 2004 - 3:43 PMalphabets & abjads..i also play around with my 'backwards english' that has it's own alphabet (thai-esque) and simplified syntax and grammar.
in other words, strictly a dilettante :)
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Re: What are your interests?
Tue, April 27, 2004 - 12:34 PMI don't have specific interests, but I am interested in developing a better understanding of linguistics. I have always been interested in language and in particular, etymology both in English and other languages (even computer languages). With my software background, I have done some studying of computer language construction and semantics.
If there are any recommendations for how to get started here (papers, books, online resources, etc.), I would certainly appreciate those. I do have some of Chomsky's earlier writings but have not spent a great deal of time with them, yet. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, April 28, 2004 - 9:57 AMI'd never even considered the etymology of computer languages - you mean like the origins of the words to describe programming? Or the origins of the programming itself? Are there "dialects" of computer languages that are groupable by region, school, or native language of the programmer?
I'm not sure what the others here may think of this title, but this is the book that got ME started waaaaay back when:
"An Introduction to Language" by Victoria Fromkin & Robert Rodman
The book isn't very deep, but it is remarkably broad - there's very little in the world of linguistics that isn't at least touched upon. Not only have I used it as my personal enthusiasm booster every few years, or as a recruiting tool for language-lovers, I have also used it as an example of how books need not be pabulum for willing student consumption. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, April 28, 2004 - 1:45 PMI suppose etymology in computer languages might be considered a misnomer. However, all computer languages that I'm familiar with (and that's something on the order of about 30-40) use English words for the base vocabulary. What this means is that any English speaker/reader can look at source code and understand what the program intends. Names that do not appear in the base vocabulary (such as variable or function names) usually derive from the writer's native language. Even though these sometimes carry semantic content, they frequently are not necessary to understand programs.
But I digress (from etymology). Some of the words used in the base vocabulary of programming languages were chosen because they represented a particular concept at a particular time. As things change, the word will remain in the language because it is extremely difficult to rewrite language specification but it will acquire new meaning; either broadening or changing the meaning. It is also the case that programming language constructs can enter into our everyday usage. An example is the use of "K" to represent 1000 even though in programming terms "K" represents 1024, but the former meaning has entered our everyday usage.
In answer to your question about dialect groupings, the answer is that, if you consider usage patterns to be dialects, then there are dialects that regional. However, in general, one of the goals of software engineering/computer science is to create software that can be reused, many usage patterns are common to general application groupings such as artificial intelligence, robotics, enterprise applications, and real-time applications to name a few. In a sense, then, a programming language like, say Java or C++, is almost a universal language because I can "speak" Java and someone who could not understand my native language (English) can understand me in Java. Furthermore, if I speak in Java (programming language) from 8 years ago, then it's likely that someone new to Java will understand me although they may have new words in their vocabulary.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'm always on the search for new books to add to my library. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, April 29, 2004 - 4:18 PM"An example is the use of "K" to represent 1000 even though in programming terms "K" represents 1024, but the former meaning has entered our everyday usage."
Well, yeah, the 'former' probably deeply determined by the word "kilo" - which comes from the Greek "kilioi" [meaning '1000'] - which has been with us since before Babbage, if memory serves....
As to dialect development, I was guessing that despite the "borderless" promise of the web, that there still might be different schools of programming that would be affected by differences in outlook or techniques or desired outcomes - would Java, as practiced in Santa Clara, differ in a "linguistically" significant/interesting way from Java in Moscow, Budapest, Istanbul, Shanghai, Cairo, or Manila? What about non-linguistically? Just call me curious. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Fri, April 30, 2004 - 6:56 AMI started thinking more about the whole "kilo" thing and it's interesting. First, you're absolutely right about it's source. However, it wasn't in common usage even during the attempts to convert to metric in the US until the computer geeks subverted it to shorten 1024 (which is the closest to 1000 you can get in powers of 2). Once that happened and computer lingo became more common, we started using it to refer back to it's original meaning.
It's my experience that there is little difference in the way the language is used no matter the country of origin of the user. Some are more adept at using it than others, but in the end, the compiler is the judge of the (mis)use of the language. If it does not compile, then the user has not followed the syntactic rules. Even semantically, the use is very common across "borders." There are certain things types of problems that come up again and again. The computing community has arrived at semantic usage "patterns" of solution for these problems and they have no language barriers (of any type) that I'm aware of. This approach is derived from Christopher Alexander's (the architect) philosophy about architectural patterns which are borderless. It is probably the case that since computer programming is essentially borderless, the whole notion of off-shoring/outsourcing is easily accommodated. I'm not sure I can answer the question about differences non-linguistically since I'm not sure what you mean. There are certainly differences in the education of programmers that seems to be cultural. I've lectured in the classroom about programming language design and I find that there are very distinct cultural biases to the approach of learning languages. These probably have more to do with the approach to education in general in the various cultural settings.
Anyway, I'm enjoying this discussion. I don't get much opportunity to have "meaningful" conversation about the field even though I'm surrounded by the very people who should be interested. Thanks! -
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Re: What are your interests?
Tue, May 4, 2004 - 11:10 AMPerhaps it's a regional thing, but "kilo" has been in fairly common use during the entirety of my sheltered [?] life in California. Whether it was the 'kilo' of illicit commerce (sometimes further truncated to 'key' [I think that's way we spelled it]) or legit sport (for Olympic/international events - any discussion of fighting weights [or lifting weights] would've featured kilos], kilos were nothing alien in my SoCal upbringing; and the truncated form "k" for kilometer was not exactly ubiqitous, but it was common enough - there were always 5K or 10K races that were being run one weekend or another. There was a fair amount of recreational migration in the region - so crossing the border & being confronted with 'kg' & 'km' seemed to eventually produce a people that had no qualms about the metric system - even if the found "Metrification" a little troubling....
My TV socialization has me presuming that there would be "schools" of programming - maybe it would be too subtle to show up initially in the dawn of a new language, but in successive generations of programming, the groupthink of a particular community would, if given enough resistance to outside influences, could conceiveably produce a unique "strain" or "dialect" of a computer language - as long as it remained "intelligible." When I was in high school, it was taken as gospel truth that there was only way to compile - the right way. The wrong way would "not compute." I'm not so sure now that there isn't some wiggle room.
(For example, in my melodrama-of-the-week mind, I imagine a scenario where a haughty bunch of bullet-proof programmers - maybe they're all MIT or Cal Tech alumni - are now working at some Dept of Defense lab/office & feeling no pain, but they get their comeuppance at the hands of some rag-tag band of programmers that has found another way to skin the figurative cat with the exact same tools/language [but w/o the "inborn" tendencies of the rest of the DoD...]. Too contrived? I have to say that hearing that Esperanto [a different kind of artificial language] had dialects - native speakers of Japanese were moving one way, Hungarians another, Germans yet another, etc. - gave me hope that perhaps this could also happen in the realm of Java, C++, Fortran, whatever.)
I'm glad to be of service - I have a surfeit of folks around here that don't converse as much as they exchange gossip, prejudice, or accusations, so I appreciate the chance to have some discussion. -
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, May 5, 2004 - 4:40 AMInteresting! I grew up mostly in the Midwest and South, and unless you were doing science (of any type) there was no mention of "metric" things. "2 Liter" became popular because that was a convenient bottle size of soda (yet another regional term) to buy but that was about it.
There are certainly "schools" of programming but I don't think in the sense of a change in the language itself. The main reason for this is that all languages used in mainstream development are built around more or less formal specifications of the language. This usually means that some entity (standards body, company) owns the specification and can declare an implementation of the specification non-compliant. Witness the recent flap between Sun Microsystems and Microsoft over the Java Language. Sun owns the specification of the Java language and licenses the use of the specification based on compliance. The flap resulted when Microsoft attempted to move slightly (well, actually quite a bit) away from the specification to suit their own purposes. Now I can use the language to create "tools" that make doing certain things easier. These tools might be considered dialects in the sense that they are peculiar to my own development experience and are not in widespread use. If I want to change the behaviour of a language, I would have to approach the owner of the specification and request a change, but if I'm the only one asking for the change, it's not likely to happen. This is true for most "modern" languages.
It has been true in the past that variants of languages have become full-fledged languages in their own right. There were a family of languages originating (I think, must check) from Snobol that were effectively dialects of that language. They all had interesting names such Spitbol, Slobol, etc. The language Cobol is a distant relative of these languages.
There are different schools of programming centered around the types of constructs a language supports. The principal ones are procedural languages (such as C, C++, Java), declarative languages (IDL, SQL), and functional languages (Haskell, ML, Scheme). Of these three, the one that is most different is the set of declarative languages. The other two have in common that they provide language tokens that support operation sequencing, looping, sub procedures, and conditional sequencing and differ mainly in how they treat assignment of value to entities not in the token set.
Your scenario is probably more true than not. But the real comeuppance of the "cowboy" programmer group is that they probably make use of obscure details of the language to accomplish the same task in less code and maybe more efficiently. I can in fact write better code in C++ than some programmers because when I need speed I resort to calling down into the native assembly (machine specific) code to directly manipulate the machine, but not everyone can do this. But it also raises issues that are beyond use of the language. One goal of writing commercial software is that it must be maintainable. So if I use obscure language details or assembly code, I may make the software less maintainable and possibly unsupportable if future requirements mean changing to different languages (as often happens). This is important because frequently the people who maintain the software in the future may not be experienced programmers but interns or co-ops.
So I've been rambling, but the gist is that computer languages are more fixed because of the reliance upon standards/specifications. The dialect concept probably arise because of the use of language features that are not in common usage.
I've found that in just about every company I've worked for, the discussions are vast intellectual wastelands since most of the conversations revolve around sports, beer, or the stock option value.
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, May 5, 2004 - 8:44 PMIt's interesting to see how many different areas of the language have contributed to the growth of the ubiquitousness of 'K'.
We may need to make the distinction between the programming languages themselves and the spoken vocabulary of programmers. I've always been fascinated by the language used by the original hacker (in the benevolent sense) community.
Words like 'cruft', 'borken/borked', 'wedged', 'bogosity', 'automagically', 'kluge', 'munge', the benevolent variant of 'hack', and even our appropriation of words like 'vanilla', 'tasty', and 'zero' (as a verb) are terrific -- and we often take them for granted. The metaphors that programmers and sysadmins bring from their professional world to the rest of their lives are fascinating. I've been stopped by some non-computer-types in order to explain what 'borked' means, though many people grasp it immediately.
One of my coworkers (or "cow orkers", as the now-famous typo made it) uses this vocabulary with some depth, absorbed over time from particular pockets of Usenet and his engineering background. He wasn't conscious of it until I started pointing the words out as they came up.
Though most of you have already probably seen it, Eric S. Raymond is the caretaker of the definitive lexicon of hacker speak at www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/ . The discussion of geographical/institutions variations is particularly interesting.
A passion of mine that rarely gets voiced, and it seemed semi-topical for once. :)
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Re: What are your interests?
Tue, September 4, 2007 - 11:24 PMComparative neurolinguistics, forensic linguistics, and compuational stylistics. And hos these overlap or contrast with the neurology/culture of music, mathematics, logic, and other forms of cognition.
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Re: What are your interests?
Wed, September 5, 2007 - 5:57 AMLinguistic anthropology and pragmatics. Tony -
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Re: What are your interests?
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 9:07 AMTo revive an older thread,
I was trained as a generalist as an undergrad, where I was particularly excited by dialectology (that was back when I still believed in the concept of pure, untainted mutual intelligibility, and still used the word 'dialect'), phonology, and some aspects of morphology. I enjoy syntax and semantics as well, but they were never my focus.
Since then, I've mostly focused on discourse analysis and sociolinguistic issues. I'm very interested in the intersection between language and policy, the role and function of minority languages, hybrid codes, and the cultural functions of regional and class-marked language variants.
As if that weren't mushy enough, my graduate work used sociolinguistic ideas to discuss literature. So I'm a mutt, but still a scientific linguist at heart. I was really interested in bringing structural-linguistic approaches back into literary parlance, because I think a lot of the discourse about language that takes place in literary circles has been horribly mucked up by the quasi-linguistics you find in poststructuralism. Not that there's anything wrong with poststructuralist play, but I think a lot of it is just sloppy linguistics.
As far as language families go, my main area of study has been the languages I know best, Thai, Lao, and regional codes within that continuum, but I've culled examples from the Romance and Slavic families as well.
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Re: What are your interests?
Sun, October 14, 2007 - 12:24 PMI am a linguistics major, and of course I love languages.
However I haven't actually realized yet what I want to specialize in. I definitely like communication and just being around people.
I am taking "languages in contact" right now and I love it. I get to sit and listen to bilinguals converse and code switch and analyze it.
I am very often around Chaldeans, Arabs, Greeks, Russians, etc, and I can just sit there for hours, listening to them - not understanding much or anything at times, but it sounds like music to my ears :))
Marianna