http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#d6842991-910a-448c-bbcc-7466fe9484f7 Agree with this... these are games, reductions... Words can be used in many many ways and the word, number and letter games of Hebrew and Jewsih mysticism are manifold but they ARE games ... magickal meanings can be pushed and pulled like statistics to make many cases. The heart is where communication comes from, not the words. love this thread + thanks Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:04:24 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#d6842991-910a-448c-bbcc-7466fe9484f7 Katha 2009-01-04T21:04:24Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8d39839c-56a1-4534-aea6-57a41f45476d Also devuelta, which is interpreted "as a turn" or "again", California spanish is awesome, espcially CALo a very "ghetto" form of Spanish. It could really be spelled "de vuelta" literally (From Turn), it means again. Calo is a creation of a miture of English and Spanish that has evolved over the last hundred years, It's mostly used in Prison Society as I understand it. Not to say that "devuelta" is not reallly used in Mexico City. I heard devuelta used all the time in Provincial Mexico all the time; as oposed to otra vez, (another Look) de nuveo, (of new) or, una vez más (one look more) as literal interpretations. Spansh is influenced by the Arab world and Hamas or Jamas sound like one of those funny things the spansih created to say never to Hamas! - or never to the Moroccans and the Arabs. Fri, 02 Jan 2009 01:25:06 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8d39839c-56a1-4534-aea6-57a41f45476d Geo 2009-01-02T01:25:06Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#06cf273c-9da3-4738-98dc-5c7e78513eda Ha, "entrar aldentro." Thanks, Gabriel. I never considered the flexible-metaphorical-Lakoff aspect of it. Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:21:58 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#06cf273c-9da3-4738-98dc-5c7e78513eda Meghan 2007-03-01T04:21:58Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#9e163500-b9a3-44fa-865b-c37acf99b9b5 I agree that (Spain) spanish grammar is very precise, but that is why I added a side note saying "hasn't anyone ever heard in spain: "subir arriba", or "bajar abajo"... it is a butchery of spanish grammar, BUT it is ok with me =) In my opinion, the main difference between spanish from spain and spanish from latin-american is the ability that spaniards have to bend grammatical rules in order to bring a personalized expression by using the language as a metaphor . That is why I must say that even though "nunca jamas" is a double negative, it should be ok depending on what one is trying to express. "Nunca Jamas" might be rarely said in Spain, but at least there is always something like "Entrar adentro" =) gabriel Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:12:45 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#9e163500-b9a3-44fa-865b-c37acf99b9b5 $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-01T04:12:45Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#83ddf0bb-8e3d-4cbc-ae68-5a1c9052e7f9 Gabriel, when I studied in Andalucia my professors were horrified that we learned "nunca jamas" in the States, from Spanish speakers who were probably native of Mexico, Central or South America. So maybe it's just southern Spain that is anti. It wouldn't surprise me, as Spain is so, so dialectal and varied. And as someone pointed out in an earlier post, every area in undergoing linguistic change. And hurray for that. Thu, 01 Mar 2007 00:03:18 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#83ddf0bb-8e3d-4cbc-ae68-5a1c9052e7f9 Meghan 2007-03-01T00:03:18Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#639b9453-c466-4f02-93ee-380bbc1871a5 "nunca jamas" is used in spain. it just depends on what kind of emphasis one wants to put on an expression.... hasn't anyone ever heard in spain something like "subir arriba" =) gabriel Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:12:59 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#639b9453-c466-4f02-93ee-380bbc1871a5 $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-22T22:12:59Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#216aa182-180d-4ed5-a4a7-e04ba917e9d0 Perhaps*, but it's a fairly common utterance among Spanish speakers in Latin America as well as here in Southern California. "Nunca Jamás" is also the standard translation for Peter Pan's Never Never Land and the James Bond film 'Never say never again' is officially translated into Spanish as 'Nunca digas nunca jamás'. Google shows 1,610,000 results for the term "nunca jamás." * Although I just asked a friend who returned from six months in Spain, including Malaga, Barcelona and Madrid, if she'd encountered anyone using this expression and she said she had. Like other Latin American expressions, it may be making its way into Spain's Spanish via popular culture (music, film, literature, etc.) from Latin America. Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:54:03 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#216aa182-180d-4ed5-a4a7-e04ba917e9d0 Marie Therese 2007-02-13T18:54:03Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#ff57e418-896b-4fd2-9b75-7486aedc7283 Does that mean that all therapists are The Rapists? --- Only when they charge as much as lawyers. ;-) Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:33:20 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#ff57e418-896b-4fd2-9b75-7486aedc7283 Kip 2007-02-13T15:33:20Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#a7e4148a-7992-493b-abbb-3393dedc4c12 A Spanish Spanish speaker (one from Spain) would never, ever say "nunca jamas." Such a double negative would be unnecessarily reiterative. They'd - depending on mood, context, color coordination - choose between either "nunca" or "jamas". Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:54:07 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#a7e4148a-7992-493b-abbb-3393dedc4c12 Meghan 2007-02-13T09:54:07Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#fe05d3d6-d4cb-461d-bd0f-4cdda3a8a825 Most Spanish speakers I know would merely say "Nunca, nunca jamás." for "never, never again." As in the English, the idea is simply to emphasize the "never", the impossibility of something happening after the last occurrence. You're also right, of course, that "jamás" means merely "never" and that there is no single word in Spanish for "again". Common Spanish phrases used for the same meaning as English "again" include: otra vez de nuevo una vez más ("one more time") Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:44:37 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#fe05d3d6-d4cb-461d-bd0f-4cdda3a8a825 Marie Therese 2007-01-17T03:44:37Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#35a6b4bf-6095-4ebb-b77c-48cdc36e3569 Nyet. "Jamas" in Spanish (as it's actually spelled) does, in fact, mean "never" in English. "Nunca jamas" is a double negative meant to give emphasis and would be translated as "never, never", perhaps with a connotation of "again". I've never heard a single word in Spanish that correlates to English's "again", so I wouldn't know how to actually translate "never, never again" into Spanish. Don't let my awesome set of shoes fool you, I'm quite stupid. Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:35:52 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#35a6b4bf-6095-4ebb-b77c-48cdc36e3569 greg 2007-01-16T19:35:52Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#18ee4a39-8c28-4e57-b07d-c6ddfdac99bb Actually, "nunca hamas" means "never again." Therefore, "hamas" alone is merely "again." Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:13:13 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#18ee4a39-8c28-4e57-b07d-c6ddfdac99bb *Doll*Parts* 2007-01-16T01:13:13Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8a7dfe89-2151-482c-bcd1-2dc4304d528d Does that mean that all therapists are The Rapists? Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:14:43 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8a7dfe89-2151-482c-bcd1-2dc4304d528d Kortoso 2007-01-15T22:14:43Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8ad02526-ccdc-4f68-ab9b-fac3a20e1efb If I hadn't danced with Shlomo at the Intersection in the 60's... If I hadn't worked for a member of the Armed Services Committee... If I hadn't befriended a torch runner... I doubt I would even have an opinion, a well researched opinion on Isra-oil, and it's sacraligiously inspired creation. A creation that uses a religion as a nuclear pawn. Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:35:46 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#8ad02526-ccdc-4f68-ab9b-fac3a20e1efb Michael 2006-02-15T00:35:46Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#d7625ed5-c557-44c3-9559-60f4436cf1f6 Just because Noam Chomsky is into it, doesn't mean its linguistics. If you want to find out whos opinions aren't very deep, find the people trying to break complex issues down to the sound of words. Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:17:06 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#d7625ed5-c557-44c3-9559-60f4436cf1f6 $item.owner.firstName 2006-02-12T22:17:06Z http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#ea19ed14-3b3b-4fc9-8b89-2b012b454ca7 God certainly has a sense of humor! In the Holy Land, Hamas won an election. The oil based hate, the kind that makes sure the only black guy in the movie dies, prounounces it "ham-ass". So if you want to see who is selling divisive hate use your ears to divide the lambs from the goats, the wheat from the chafe. Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:02:23 GMT http://linguistica.tribe.net/thread/cd773141-7834-49ee-8c17-c4befc670b09#ea19ed14-3b3b-4fc9-8b89-2b012b454ca7 Michael 2006-02-11T20:02:23Z